Sampling

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Sampling

Postby thetechnobear » Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:38 pm

Hi there,

Im thinking about trying to create same SLI files for the spectralis.
as far as I understand the process, on a mac, I can use a special build of Swami, which can use as input either SF2 or WAV files - correct? any tips on this process?

also on the sampling itself, I want to take samples from VSTs and also my Virus, Im thinking of investing in something like SampleRobot, so that I can ease the process...
(Im hoping that samplerobot can produce a few velocity laters, and range over the keyboard put that info into the SF2 so that Swami can pick this up, and use this information ... a reasonable expectation?)

Does anyone else use Sample Robot or something else, preferably Mac... recommendations?

thanks for your help
Mark
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Re: Sampling

Postby thetechnobear » Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:40 pm

ok, so I downloaded Swami, and got that working.
a couple of things that are unclear to me,

Q. is swami generating an SLI or SLC?
( I only had one instrument with multiple samples in it, so I guess it was SLI, but didnt matter what i called it Spectralis loaded as either)
Q. it only would show up in the Oscillator wave (correctly categorised) , not as an instrument using 'select' ... is this expected? do I then have to save it on the spectralis as a sound, to get it in the 'select menu'?
Q. Can Swami convert an SF2 to a SLI/SLC?
I could load the SF2, but i didnt appear to be able to cut/paste the samples/instruments from the SF2 to the SLI,
and I couldn't find a way to 'export' the SF2 as SLI.
the reason I'm hoping to be able to do this is, if I can auto generate an SF2, then this will already contain key/velocity/envelope information... so I don't have to 'redo it'

Q. is there any information about what information the Spectralis uses from the SLI?
(e.g will it use envelope or modulation information if it is present?)

background:
so far the way i did it was to use, auto-sampler in MainStage, convert the samples (aif) to wav in audacity*, then drop into Swami to load samples, assign to instrument and map key range.
I want to 'optimise' this process, as whilst it works for a small number of samples, its going to be a bit time consuming if I start doing this for a large number of velocity samples/or key ranges.


cheers for any help/info
Mark

*I could substitute audacity with a command line tool, to ease this step.
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Re: Sampling

Postby Gonzini » Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:54 pm

I had a play with sample robot many years ago. I thought I'd sample my EMU command station with roms before i sold it, it was actually easier to buy a S/H Proteus 2K and stuff the roms in that instead. Also have a proper synth engine to run the samples through with 4 layers.
Sample robot is a great idea but setting loop points and the like was a bit hit of miss when automated i found.
It was really hard work.

Not all the categories work with the Spectralis either if i recall correctly.
Only sounds part of a soundbank will appear by default, raw samples you will have to press the osc wave encoder to get at those.
As for what parameter info makes it over from an SF2 file to SLI / SLC there is a list somewhere not seen it in years.
I always just used to setup key mapping as the rest can be done better when loaded in the Spectralis.
Im PC based so can't help with the Swami questions.
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Re: Sampling

Postby balaton » Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:05 pm

thetechnobear wrote:Q. is swami generating an SLI or SLC?
( I only had one instrument with multiple samples in it, so I guess it was SLI, but didnt matter what i called it Spectralis loaded as either)

There's no difference between the two in the format, it's only a naming convention to name single instrument files SLI and those containing multiple patches as SLC.
Q. it only would show up in the Oscillator wave (correctly categorised) , not as an instrument using 'select' ... is this expected? do I then have to save it on the spectralis as a sound, to get it in the 'select menu'?

Yes, this is how imported samples show up.
Q. Can Swami convert an SF2 to a SLI/SLC?
I could load the SF2, but i didnt appear to be able to cut/paste the samples/instruments from the SF2 to the SLI,
and I couldn't find a way to 'export' the SF2 as SLI.
the reason I'm hoping to be able to do this is, if I can auto generate an SF2, then this will already contain key/velocity/envelope information... so I don't have to 'redo it'

Unfortunately this is not implemented. It would be possible to write the needed parts but I have no time to do it anytime soon. You might be able to copy&paste sample data from SF2 to SLI but not instruments. For converting SF2 to SLI/SLC you could use the factory converter but that only works on Windows.
Q. is there any information about what information the Spectralis uses from the SLI?
(e.g will it use envelope or modulation information if it is present?)

No idea. You'd have to experiment to find out and if you do please share the results. Some of the parameters such as filter values are not saved to SLI/SLC most others are saved but I'm not sure if the Spectralis will use them or they are saved correctly.
so far the way i did it was to use, auto-sampler in MainStage, convert the samples (aif) to wav in audacity*, then drop into Swami to load samples, assign to instrument and map key range.
I want to 'optimise' this process, as whilst it works for a small number of samples, its going to be a bit time consuming if I start doing this for a large number of velocity samples/or key ranges.
*I could substitute audacity with a command line tool, to ease this step.

Swami should be able to load aif files directly but I did not try that. If it works you could at least avoid that step. If looking for a command line tool probably sox can do it but its interface might not be the easiest to use. You should be able to get it from macports or homebrew or fink. What might also help in creating multiple multisamples is the ability to copy&paste multiple samples at once. You can't do it with drag&drop due to a gtk bug but selecting multiple samples then selecting copy from the right click menu allows them to be pasted from the same right click menu. If pasting multiple samples into the Instruments folder it creates new instrument for each sample, if creating the instrument first and pasting to that adds samples for a multisampled instrument. I think I've described this in another thread.
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Re: Sampling

Postby thetechnobear » Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:06 am

first, thank you @balaton for the work you have done on Swami, very useful :)

found your thread about parameters : http://www.forum.radikaltechnologies.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2920
I'll have a go and see which ones seem to be used.

hmm, if SampleRobot is not going to automate much more than I can get already from wavs+swami, then SF2 doesn't buy me much. I think I'll create a few sample sets just using swami + auto sampler (MainStage), then review once I've got a bit more experience, and know what Im looking for. ( apparently there will be a new SampleRobot 5.0 in Q1/2015 anyway)

AIFS + Swami... it did load them, but not correctly, they are 'corrupted' , but not real issue, as i need to resample to 44.1k/16bit anyway.

thanks for the help and info
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Re: Sampling

Postby balaton » Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:12 pm

thetechnobear wrote:AIFS + Swami... it did load them, but not correctly, they are 'corrupted' , but not real issue, as i need to resample to 44.1k/16bit anyway.

Actually it might also be able to do the resampling in the latest version if it loaded the sample correctly. You could put an aif file which failed to load somewhere downloadable and try asking on the swami mailing list. (Although there aren't many developers and they are all busy.)
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Re: Sampling

Postby thetechnobear » Thu May 21, 2015 6:34 pm

Hi,
Ive got a single wav file with multiple samples (over a key range)
- loaded the sample
- created an instrument
- used the same sample multiple times on the instrument, using drag n drop
- for each of these instrument 'samples', i adjusted the sample start and end, and tuning

so Im using one sample, but its on the instrument multiple times with different windows/tune

it all works perfectly ok in Swami

but when I move it to the Spectralis, it seems be using the same sample for every note:
i.e. Ive notes for C1,C2,C3,C4 etc ... ranged C1-B1,C2-B2 etc
so if I play C1-B2 its fine, but when I play C2-B2 its actually playing C1-B1

in other works it knows there is a new sample, but its always using the first sample window.
(we can tell this, because its correctly adjusting the pitch within the window, but then using the wrong sample for the next note)

Do you think this could be a bug in Swamis generation of the SLI ( but which looks correct when its loaded)
or does the spectralis require each sample range to be using a different sample file?
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Re: Sampling

Postby rbhall7ice » Fri May 22, 2015 7:01 am

I've used polyphone (free)to create sf2's from various wavs lying around as well as sometimes editing stuff after using redmatica's older autosampler (now apple) and translator.
Polyphone has a kind of autodistribute for the keys and stereo files stay stereo when finally in the spectralis which for some reason samplerobot did not do.
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Re: Sampling

Postby thetechnobear » Fri May 22, 2015 10:05 am

which tool do you used to convert to an SLI or SLC for the spectralis?

and when you do this, do you use 1 wav file, that contains samples for different notes,
and then this is just configured, such that the start and end points are just different for different keys.

Im trying to determine if this issue is caused by

- Swami generating an 'incorrect' SLI
i.e its misinterpreted the SLI format, or is writing it incorrectly.
(Swami is correct 'in itself' as its able to reload the data correctly)
this would be good, as its possible to fix

- Spectralis does not support same wave file for different samples.
perhaps it expects each sample is in a different wave file
this would be a problem, as it would mean Radikal would need to make a change, which is unlikely to happen!
... so I will need to separate into different wave files. ( perhaps this is where polyphone could help)

actually I could use Abletons, Slice to Midi, to split the file, unfortunately, Ive not found a good way for it to then output each slice to a different file :(

I guess my other test, is to try to use Swami to set the start/end on a single sample... perhaps the start point is not working at all... again either due to an issue in Swami, or the Spectralis.

I also I could use a windows emulator to run the radikal tool, and see if what Im doing work there... if it doesn't then that would point the issue firmly at the Spectralis.
Ive got VMware so can do that... but has any one tried the Radikal tool with WINE?
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Re: Sampling

Postby rbhall7ice » Mon May 25, 2015 7:06 am

I used the specimp on a cheap old pc laptop my friend gave me.
Almost all are multisamples many with loop points done by autosampler.(looping in polyphone is a headache)
-as far as one wav having different notes and and naming starts/ends for it-never done that
but suppose polyphone could do it - whatever saves time youknow.
I tried to work with swami but gave up when i found a reasonably fast method with
reliable results- have around 60 gigs now.
- which i know seems overkill but it's a long story.
They're usually between 4 and 10 megs each and drum stuff smaller for collections.
I'd suggest dumping swami,get your wavs into polyphone to map across keys/edit/turn into sf2s
and just have a friend/neighbor with a pc stick the specimp on their desk and drop them in there
and send them back to you.that's how i did it at first.
(all the while with the PROMISE of a mac converter in the spec manual bouncing in my fuming head)
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